# So there's a book, and software, and a site, and a disconnect **URL:** \ **Category:** Site Feedback\ **Created:** [May 20, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962 "2023-05-20T15:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sotired](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sotired](https://racket.discourse.group/u/sotired)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962/1 "2023-05-20T15:47:52Z")
An acquintance asked which programming language to learn, PHP or JavaScript. Because she'd doing a web design course -- she seems to be having a good go at the design part. So I considered, and concluded that neither are good languages to teach programming with. So a nicely not-too-technical introduction to the principles would be useful. I read the paper claiming SICP was no good (I have a copy, couldn't get through it), and instead recommending HtDP. So I found the online copy to try and shoot through and see whether it's as good as claimed. To go with it is a programming environment, DrScheme. But wait! That's now something else, somewhere else, with a different name. I get told that a lot. Like on every pageload. But getting useful binaries seems to be just out of reach. Nevermind how that would be for someone less technical than I am. Because, you see, I don't need the latest bestest version. I need the version that best goes with the book. Which is the old version as it was when the book was published. Not the renamed version with lots of new features and all different tags throughout and whatnots. And, well, all the redirects go to the racket front page, not to DrRacket, which seems to be a package, but isn't easily findable between all the other packages. So this is a major bummer. As an introduction, it falls flat because it needs an experienced sysadmin and the use of [archive.org](http://archive.org) to even get close to useful binaries. And I haven't even tried installing anything yet. ---
**Author:** ![EmEf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/53a042/32.png) [@EmEf](https://racket.discourse.group/u/EmEf)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962/2 "2023-05-20T16:04:07Z")
[the first page of the Prolog (online v. 8.9)](https://htdp.org/2023-5-12/Book/part_prologue.html) Screenshot attached. ![Screenshot 2023-05-20 at 12.01.36 PM](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/racket/original/2X/d/dfefa1146af709fa7f7fec39839863218eb8e736.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![sorawee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@sorawee](https://racket.discourse.group/u/sorawee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962/3 "2023-05-21T02:28:04Z")
> So I found the online copy to try and shoot through and see whether it's as good as claimed. > > To go with it is a programming environment, DrScheme. But wait! That's now something else, somewhere else, with a different name. I get told that a lot. Like on every pageload. But getting useful binaries seems to be just out of reach. Nevermind how that would be for someone less technical than I am. > > Because, you see, I don't need the latest bestest version. I need the version that best goes with the book. Which is the old version as it was when the book was published. Not the renamed version with lots of new features and all different tags throughout and whatnots. When I google "DrScheme", it shows [http://download.plt-scheme.org/drscheme/](http://download.plt-scheme.org/drscheme/) as the first result. The site is a bit difficult to read (with broken CSS and all that), but you are definitely able to download installers from the page. ![Screenshot 2023-05-20 at 7.12.09 PM.png](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/free1/uploads/racket/original/2X/0/0a0b9e9d23900c592b9deafad8e2eab70e16d65a.png) That being said, DrScheme has been unmaintained for more than a decade now. You probably will get a better support if you stick with DrRacket and the new edition of the book (accessible from [https://htdp.org/](https://htdp.org/)). For me, I am currently using Mac M1, and I wouldn't be surprised if none of these installers, which are a decade old, is functional on my machine. > And, well, all the redirects go to the racket front page, not to DrRacket, which seems to be a package, but isn't easily findable between all the other packages. DrRacket is a part of Racket. Installing Racket means you will have DrRacket installed, too (unless you choose an obscure installer that doesn't include DrRacket). > So this is a major bummer. As an introduction, it falls flat because it needs an experienced sysadmin and the use of [archive.org](http://archive.org) to even get close to useful binaries. And I haven't even tried installing anything yet. If you really want to install DrScheme and go against the recommendation to switch to Racket/DrRacket, then yeah, perhaps that's going to be difficult. But most users/readers won't do that. FWIW, I installed Racket/DrRacket for the first time when I was a freshman in college (definitely not an experienced sysadmin), and everything went smoothly for me. ---
**Author:** ![jbclements](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/racket.discourse.group/jbclements/32/11_2.png) [@jbclements](https://racket.discourse.group/u/jbclements)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 3:43am UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962/4 "2023-05-21T03:43:04Z")
Forgive my ignorance: It's not clear to me how you reached a version of the book that pointed you to DrScheme. If you go to [HtDP.org](http://HtDP.org), it appears to me to point to the second edition of the book, which—as far as I can tell—contains references only to DrRacket, not to DrScheme. Can I ask what online page refers to DrScheme, and how you wound up there? P.S. I'm sorry that you're so tired! I think that if you just click the "Download" link on the racket language front page, you'll be installing everything that you need for the book. ---
**Author:** ![LiberalArtist](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/racket.discourse.group/liberalartist/32/151_2.png) [@LiberalArtist](https://racket.discourse.group/u/LiberalArtist)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 6:26am UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962/5 "2023-05-21T06:26:50Z")
> [@jbclements](#): > > Forgive my ignorance: It's not clear to me how you reached a version of the book that pointed you to DrScheme. If you go to [HtDP.org](http://HtDP.org), it appears to me to point to the second edition of the book, which—as far as I can tell—contains references only to DrRacket, not to DrScheme. Can I ask what online page refers to DrScheme, and how you wound up there? Speaking for myself, I reached a version of the book that referred to DrScheme by buying it at a bookstore, not quite a decade ago. By then the programming environment had been renamed DrRacket, but I can attest that everything from Beginning Student Language through Advanced Student Language worked just as described in the paper book I just double-checked on my shelf. From this description: > [@sotired](#): > > I read the paper claiming SICP was no good (I have a copy, couldn't get through it), and instead recommending HtDP. it sounds like @sotired may have read [The Structure and Interpretation of the Computer Science Curriculum](https://users.cs.northwestern.edu/~robby/pubs/papers/htdp-sicp-fdpe2002.pdf). (I'd say that the paper, which says that "SICP has a deserved reputation as one of the great books of computer science", makes more nuanced claims, though surely my exegesis isn't needed when the first author is in this thread.) > [@sotired](#): > > Because, you see, I don't need the latest bestest version. I need the version that best goes with the book. Which is the old version as it was when the book was published. Not the renamed version with lots of new features and all different tags throughout and whatnots. The Racket project has an extremely strong emphasis on backwards-compatibility. Part of the Racket release process tests that nothing breaks in any published packages, especially including the teaching languages. ---
**Author:** ![omendezmorales](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/racket.discourse.group/omendezmorales/32/519_2.png) [@omendezmorales](https://racket.discourse.group/u/omendezmorales)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://racket.discourse.group/t/so-theres-a-book-and-software-and-a-site-and-a-disconnect/1962/6 "2023-05-26T20:54:20Z")
I think he went to [this page](https://htdp.org/2003-09-26/drscheme.html), where the _old DrScheme pages_ hyperlink leads it to a dead end [http://plt-scheme.org/](http://plt-scheme.org/)